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@doctorow got an important point wrong at #28c3 - Andrew Auernheimer — LiveJournal
Oðinnsson. Market abuser. Internationally notorious computer criminal.
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@doctorow got an important point wrong at #28c3
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From: (Anonymous) Date: January 19th, 2012 04:38 am (UTC) (link)
I used to make arguments similar to yours, but I've started recently to temper that part of myself down. It's not that you're wrong, it's that there's a combination at work here. Some people know but don't care, some care but don't want to know, some know and care, but more for how it benefits them than anything else. I used to think that educating people on the subject would get them to see things my way, but most of the time they just responded with apathy, acceptance, or interest on how to get in on the action.

But anyway, to your points:

> Couldn't Apple make controlled devices that grant all the conveniences to the users but also allow the user control it if he wants so?

No. In practical terms, probably, but otherwise no. Apple doesn't just sell a computer, Apple sells an experience. Not just that, but an experience with a guarantee of consistency and reliability. For something like that you need control, and a lot of it. I imagine it's a loosely similar to some IT departments. The IT department needs to provide certain guarantees in terms of network regularity and computer performance and security, so they lock down company computers to make sure everything operates in a predictable way. The analogy isn't quite perfect, but the mindset is probably close.

> I agree that an appliance can be controlled, as long as they are controlled for the convenience of the user. Unfortunately, a lot of times the power is also used to lock the customer, to fight against competitors, to make user a target of marketing etc.

As it happens, I work in a marketing department. Based on this I can tell you that given the right culture, a citizen will give away any and all civil rights in the name of convenience. Right now America at least is in such a cultural mindset. They're in "Consumer Mode". They want stuff, they want it fast, and they want it with a minimum of hassle. For all the good the Occupy Movement did for national debate, it was still very emblematic of this mindset.

Had the Occupiers put forth a cohesive political strategy for re-aligning our nation, they would have been in engaging in an innovative mindset; that of seeing a problem, identifying a solution, and then driving the idea into reality. They didn't do this. Instead they simply demanded change. This is a very consumerist mentality. They wanted something from the powers that be, and were banking on the idea that complaining in numbers would allow that to happen. That's very different from creating a solution to a problem.

As long as this consumerist mindset exists, the problem of the frog and the pot will never go away. Or, more exactly, the problem of the frog jumping into the pot will never go away. The consumerist mindset is not predisposed to action. That would cause inconvenience, which goes against the whole mentality. As long as Americans operate with this mindset, it would be easy to convince them to do things that aren't in their best interests (unless you push the boundaries too hard. SOPA and PIPA being the most current examples).

Of course, if you work in marketing, that's probably not a bad thing. I've been told that advertising and PR companies are pulling ahead of the pack in terms of income and job growth.
From: (Anonymous) Date: January 25th, 2012 11:30 pm (UTC) (link)
the troll is that they should give up their millions of dollars they made hussling an 'IT department experience' in exchange for some kind of moral product, like maybe a tool that will lead to productivity increase in the field of space rocketry, medical surgery, artistic literacy, or internet chattery.

NYPD don't carry puppets on the job to match a puppeteer's starting salary. Apple does't make IT department experiences.

Apple weaseled it's way into the computing market like PERL weaseled it's way into computing science

"I don't know the Jon Orwant guy, but he has written a few other Perl books including 《Mastering Algorithms with Perl》 amazon . Algorithms in Perl? Give me a flying break.
The Perl folks are funny that they giddily bid computer scientists to recognize their language. There's the OOP book and now Algorithm. In Perl groups you'll also read about AI with Perl or such. It'd be fun to see books titled Computer Science with Perl, Logic Programing in Perl, Lambda Calculus with Perl, Advanced Calculus with Perl, Relativity with Perl, Rocket Science with Perl, Spaced Out with Perl, How To Pick Up Chicks with Perl." --xahlee, 2002

Btw there's biology in perl now (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioperl), i can't wait for cosmic morality with perl, apple brand teachings of christ with lacking scriptures, and special class of cops that carry tissues around in their pockets when you get your feelings hurt for driving 60 in a 50 zone
From: (Anonymous) Date: January 28th, 2012 03:45 am (UTC) (link)
Re: moral products
I'm not sure that's a troll so much as the nature of the modern American business. There's always a lot of talk about how businesses should act more socially or morally responsible. To be honest, I think they should. That's not how the system works, though. Businesses only have one purpose, and that is to make money for their owners or stockholders.

That may seem disheartening, but it needn't be. If we know that businesses only care about profit, the the real challenge is to make the morally acceptable profitable as well. Businesses will fall in line very predictably. Obviously easier said than done, but look how Apple moved to disassociate themselves from that factory in China where workers were killing themselves. Look how they tout their eco-friendly unibody construction for their MacBook line. Companies have a very simple and direct psychology. It's just a matter of finding a way to take advantage of it.
19 comments / leave comment